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It was not far from working in the old 0.7 time. The response was not directly accessible to outlook users as it was an attachment but at least when they click they were able to see the anwser.
With 1.0 (as well as 0.9 BTW), there is no way to get anything that outlook can open. I keep having remarks from collegues that I just send garbage to their invitation. selecting or not the outlook compatible button does not change anything.
Eric Valette wrote: >It was not far from working in the old 0.7 time. The response was not >directly accessible to outlook users as it was an attachment but at >least when they click they were able to see the anwser.
>With 1.0 (as well as 0.9 BTW), there is no way to get anything that >outlook can open. I keep having remarks from collegues that I just send >garbage to their invitation. selecting or not the outlook compatible >button does not change anything.
The answer to your question is: It will be fixed once we find someone with sufficient interest, who can code a bugfix.
At this moment, the person who originally coded the iMIP/iTIP stuff (Clint) is no lonmger actively working for the Calendar project, because Mozilla Corporation hired him as a QA engineer. He has been swamped with work ever since.
We have one person (Philipp) who has a part-time contract with Mozilla Messaging to work on Calendar bugs, but with our current state of things, full outlook compatibility is not his highest priority. And rightfully so.
We also have people like Martin, Stefan and a few other who contribute a few fixes here and there, but that's basically it.
I have said this many times, but I will say it again: If you want something fixed, step up, learn to code and do it. This is an open source project. We're more than happy to take fixes from whoever provides them.
The Calendar Project is a highly visible project and there's probably no other project in the Mozilla space, where one could make an impact for our users in a shorter period of time. It's your chance to take!
> We have one person (Philipp) who has a part-time contract with Mozilla > Messaging to work on Calendar bugs, but with our current state of things, > full outlook compatibility is not his highest priority. And rightfully > so.
So one year later, you still do not get it: people will start working on lightning on their paid time work when the level of compatibility will outlook calendaring will be close to sufficient. To attract developer that can code on their normal job time, you need enterprise willing to pay developer to iron out the last few bugs. I do not think companies with big exchange mail server system will change the server part but they can encourage customer to switch the cleint part especially now that openoffice can replace M$ office for average user.
> If you want something fixed, step up, learn to code and do it. This is an > open source project. We're more than happy to take fixes from whoever > provides them.
I have no free personnal time to do this as I do not need this feature at home and I'm more interested in multimedia project like xbmc or mplayer. My employer will not allow me do it either as 98% or the 100k+ person company use windows for office work.
Just felt like putting in my oar (or my two cents?) here.
On 2009-11-07 12:37, Eric Valette wrote:
> On 07/11/2009 11:28, Simon Paquet wrote:
>> We have one person (Philipp) who has a part-time contract with Mozilla >> Messaging to work on Calendar bugs, but with our current state of things, >> full outlook compatibility is not his highest priority. And rightfully >> so.
I think the operative phrase in here might well be "current state" -- this may change with changing circumstances, especially after Lightning's core functionality stabilizes (e.g. after 1.0 final).
> So one year later, you still do not get it: people will start working on > lightning on their paid time work when the level of compatibility will > outlook calendaring will be close to sufficient.
Well, what do you suggest should be done, precisely? Complaining can be valid, but it doesn't actually solve anything. And I believe you want this problem solved.
> To attract developer that can code on their normal job time, you > need enterprise willing to pay developer to iron out the last few bugs. > I do not think companies with big exchange mail server system will change > the server part but they can encourage customer to switch the cleint part > especially now that openoffice can replace M$ office for average user.
So you're suggesting that to get bugfixes, there needs to be some rough code out there? Makes sense, I suppose, but OTOH, there seems to be rough code that at least tries to do the right thing, as well as the old source from 0.7-era, which was able to handle some of these situations. So the basic code is there, though not currently functional, correct? (Disclaimer: I'm not actually familiar with the calendar codebase at all, nor this bug in particular.)
>> If you want something fixed, step up, learn to code and do it. This is an >> open source project. We're more than happy to take fixes from whoever >> provides them.
> I have no free personnal time to do this as I do not need this feature > at home and I'm more interested in multimedia project like xbmc or > mplayer. My employer will not allow me do it either as 98% or the 100k+ > person company use windows for office work.
For myself, I only code directly work-related projects when at work, and reserve anything else for off-hours. But if you need this at work, can't you put some time into e.g. researching the bug, creating testcases, etc? That's what I would do if I wanted a bug fixed really badly. Of course, there's a gray area in there where I want a bug fixed, but not badly enough to put serious effort into it.
Realistically, though, if no one wants a bug fixed badly enough to spend an hour or two making the eventual fix easier, then maybe it's not that important of a bug. At any rate, it certainly isn't likely to be fixed. That's just the reality of most open source, especially un-sponsored (as Lightning is at present, I believe).
> For myself, I only code directly work-related projects when at work, and > reserve anything else for off-hours. But if you need this at work, can't > you put some time into e.g. researching the bug, creating testcases, > etc? That's what I would do if I wanted a bug fixed really badly. Of > course, there's a gray area in there where I want a bug fixed, but not > badly enough to put serious effort into it.
Well at 0.9 time I invested some time to fix a few things in js myself picking up some ITIP/IMIP related fixes and backporting them to 0.9 to discover that TB2 support will be dropped in the end and no production quality code will ever be available for TB2. The official answer a that time was that lightning for TB3 will ave everything.
I just started one or two week ago when semi official build for debian came out to discover that old bug aren't fixed or more certainly have reappeared (I use official lightning build now that they are compatible with the debian version). That obviously lead to question the non regression mean used during the development process using old bug test cases...
Concerning providing the test case, of course I will porduce new test case. But since the bug has already been open and fixed, I'm sure some test case still exist in the bug database.
Never mind, I will invest again so time to provide fresh rest case.
>> With 1.0 (as well as 0.9 BTW), there is no way to get anything that >> outlook can open. I keep having remarks from collegues that I just send >> garbage to their invitation. selecting or not the outlook compatible >> button does not change anything.
Do you have a link to a bugzilla issue ?
> We have one person (Philipp) who has a part-time contract with Mozilla > Messaging to work on Calendar bugs, but with our current state of things, > full outlook compatibility is not his highest priority. And rightfully > so.
I would propose that people vote (or not) for the Bugzilla issue. Then we can see if this issue should have a higher priority or not.
I personally think that Exchange/Outlook interoperability would tremendously help TB's popularity in enterprise environments.
>> For myself, I only code directly work-related projects when at work, and >> reserve anything else for off-hours. But if you need this at work, can't >> you put some time into e.g. researching the bug, creating testcases, >> etc? That's what I would do if I wanted a bug fixed really badly. Of >> course, there's a gray area in there where I want a bug fixed, but not >> badly enough to put serious effort into it.
> Well at 0.9 time I invested some time to fix a few things in js myself > picking up some ITIP/IMIP related fixes and backporting them to 0.9 to > discover that TB2 support will be dropped in the end and no production > quality code will ever be available for TB2. The official answer a that > time was that lightning for TB3 will ave everything.
> I just started one or two week ago when semi official build for debian > came out to discover that old bug aren't fixed or more certainly have > reappeared (I use official lightning build now that they are compatible > with the debian version). That obviously lead to question the non > regression mean used during the development process using old bug test > cases...
> Concerning providing the test case, of course I will porduce new test > case. But since the bug has already been open and fixed, I'm sure some > test case still exist in the bug database.
> Never mind, I will invest again so time to provide fresh rest case.
> -- eric
Ah, I see. Like I said, I don't know the background of the bug, so I didn't know you'd already essentially taken my advice. Apologies for assuming.
> I would propose that people vote (or not) for the Bugzilla issue. Then > we can see if this issue should have a higher priority or not.
Dunno if things have changed but that did not help in the past because independently of the vote, developers have their own interest and usually prefer adding fancy features rather than making things simply work (especially if it is compatibility with M$ de facto but undocumented standard). I can understand this because they are all volunteers after all.
> I personally think that Exchange/Outlook interoperability would > tremendously help TB's popularity in enterprise environments.
So do I. Other have also expressed the same interest in the past but this did not help. Or we should have a really high score this time.
Will probably open a new bug with test case Monday when back at work.
>>> With 1.0 (as well as 0.9 BTW), there is no way to get anything that >>> outlook can open. I keep having remarks from collegues that I just send >>> garbage to their invitation. selecting or not the outlook compatible >>> button does not change anything.
If that's correct, my feeling would be that the original bug (377761) should be reopened with the given testcases, and a comment that this seems to have regressed. Presumably, it shouldn't be too hard to fix, since it was marked resolved and verified for 0.9 (I think?).
433848 seems to be a somewhat separate issue, mostly having to do with lacking a UI for editing event details on confirmation, etc.
> If that's correct, my feeling would be that the original bug > (377761) should be reopened with the given testcases, and a > comment that this seems to have regressed. Presumably, it > shouldn't be too hard to fix, since it was marked resolved and > verified for 0.9 (I think?).
If you think that something regressed please file a new bug report and attach the test case / test steps that can be used to reproduce the new issue. It should be sufficient to mention the other bug report instead of reopening bug reports that were fixed and verified more than a year ago.
Looking at the bug report it seems to be about invitations created and send by Lightning. But the newsgroup post from Eric was about Lightnings accept/decline responses to invitations created and send by Outlook.
> On 2009-11-08 04:41, Pascal wrote: >>>> With 1.0 (as well as 0.9 BTW), there is no way to get anything that >>>> outlook can open. I keep having remarks from collegues that I just send >>>> garbage to their invitation. selecting or not the outlook compatible >>>> button does not change anything.
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